7. Mahāvagga

Aṅguttara Nikāya 3.67

Numbered Discourses 3.67

7. Mahāvagga

7. The Great Chapter

Kathāvatthusutta

Topics of Discussion

“Tīṇimāni, bhikkhave, kathāvatthūni.

“There are, mendicants, these three topics of discussion.

Katamāni tīṇi?

What three?

Atītaṁ vā, bhikkhave, addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya:

You might discuss the past:

‘evaṁ ahosi atītamaddhānan’ti.

‘That is how it was in the past.’

Anāgataṁ vā, bhikkhave, addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya:

You might discuss the future:

‘evaṁ bhavissati anāgatamaddhānan’ti.

‘That is how it will be in the future.’

Etarahi vā, bhikkhave, paccuppannaṁ addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya:

Or you might discuss the present:

‘evaṁ hoti etarahi paccuppannamaddhānan’ti.

‘This is how it is at present.’

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti.

You can know whether or not an individual is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ekaṁsabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na ekaṁsena byākaroti, vibhajjabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na vibhajja byākaroti, paṭipucchābyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na paṭipucchā byākaroti, ṭhapanīyaṁ pañhaṁ na ṭhapeti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti.

When an individual is asked a question, if it needs to be answered categorically and they don’t answer it categorically; or if it needs analysis and they answer without analyzing it; or if it needs a counter-question and they answer without a counter-question; or if it should be set aside and they don’t set it aside, then that individual is not competent to hold a discussion.

Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ekaṁsabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ ekaṁsena byākaroti, vibhajjabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ vibhajja byākaroti, paṭipucchābyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ paṭipucchā byākaroti, ṭhapanīyaṁ pañhaṁ ṭhapeti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

When an individual is asked a question, if it needs to be answered categorically and they answer it categorically; or if it needs analysis and they answer after analyzing it; or if it needs a counter-question and they answer with a counter-question; or if it should be set aside and they set it aside, then that individual is competent to hold a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti.

You can know whether or not an individual is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ṭhānāṭhāne na saṇṭhāti parikappe na saṇṭhāti aññātavāde na saṇṭhāti paṭipadāya na saṇṭhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti.

When an individual is asked a question, if they’re not consistent about what their position is and what it isn’t; about what they propose; about speaking from what they know; and about the appropriate procedure, then that individual is not competent to hold a discussion.

Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ṭhānāṭhāne saṇṭhāti parikappe saṇṭhāti aññātavāde saṇṭhāti paṭipadāya saṇṭhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

When an individual is asked a question, if they are consistent about what their position is and what it isn’t; about what they propose; about speaking from what they know; and about the appropriate procedure, then that individual is competent to hold a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti.

You can know whether or not an individual is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno aññenaññaṁ paṭicarati, bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmeti, kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukaroti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti.

When an individual is asked a question, if they dodge the issue; distract the discussion with irrelevant points; or display annoyance, hate, and bitterness, then that individual is not competent to hold a discussion.

Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno na aññenaññaṁ paṭicarati na bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmeti, na kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukaroti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

When an individual is asked a question, if they don’t dodge the issue; distract the discussion with irrelevant points; or display annoyance, hate, and bitterness, then that individual is competent to hold a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti.

You can know whether or not an individual is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno abhiharati abhimaddati anupajagghati khalitaṁ gaṇhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti.

When an individual is asked a question, if they intimidate, crush, mock, or seize on trivial mistakes, then that individual is not competent to hold a discussion.

Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno nābhiharati nābhimaddati na anupajagghati na khalitaṁ gaṇhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

When an individual is asked a question, if they don’t intimidate, crush, mock, or seize on trivial mistakes, then that individual is competent to hold a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā saupaniso yadi vā anupanisoti.

You can know whether or not an individual has what’s required by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Anohitasoto, bhikkhave, anupaniso hoti, ohitasoto saupaniso hoti.

If they actively listen they have what’s required; if they don’t actively listen they don’t have what’s required.

So saupaniso samāno abhijānāti ekaṁ dhammaṁ, parijānāti ekaṁ dhammaṁ, pajahati ekaṁ dhammaṁ, sacchikaroti ekaṁ dhammaṁ.

Someone who has what’s required directly knows one thing, completely understands one thing, gives up one thing, and realizes one thing—

So abhijānanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, parijānanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, pajahanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, sacchikaronto ekaṁ dhammaṁ sammāvimuttiṁ phusati.

and then they experience complete freedom.

Etadatthā, bhikkhave, kathā;

This is the purpose of discussion,

etadatthā mantanā;

consultation,

etadatthā upanisā;

sitting close,

etadatthaṁ sotāvadhānaṁ, yadidaṁ anupādā cittassa vimokkhoti.

and listening well, that is, the liberation of the mind by not grasping.

Ye viruddhā sallapanti,

Those who converse with hostility,

viniviṭṭhā samussitā;

too sure of themselves, arrogant,

Anariyaguṇamāsajja,

ignoble, attacking virtues,

aññoññavivaresino.

they look for flaws in each other.

Dubbhāsitaṁ vikkhalitaṁ,

They rejoice together when their opponent

sampamohaṁ parājayaṁ;

speaks poorly and makes a mistake,

Aññoññassābhinandanti,

becoming confused and defeated—

tadariyo kathanācare.

but the noble ones don’t discuss like this.

Sace cassa kathākāmo,

If an astute person wants to hold a discussion

kālamaññāya paṇḍito;

connected with the teaching and its meaning—

Dhammaṭṭhapaṭisaṁyuttā,

the kind of discussion that noble ones hold—

yā ariyacaritā kathā.

then that wise one should start the discussion,

Taṁ kathaṁ kathaye dhīro,

knowing when the time is right,

aviruddho anussito;

neither hostile nor arrogant.

Anunnatena manasā,

Not over-excited,

apaḷāso asāhaso.

contemptuous, or aggressive,

Anusūyāyamāno so,

or with a mind full of jealousy,

sammadaññāya bhāsati;

they’d speak from what they rightly know.

Subhāsitaṁ anumodeyya,

They agree with what was well spoken,

dubbhaṭṭhe nāpasādaye.

without criticizing what was poorly said.

Upārambhaṁ na sikkheyya,

They’d not persist in finding faults,

khalitañca na gāhaye;

nor seize on trivial mistakes,

Nābhihare nābhimadde,

neither intimidating nor crushing the other,

na vācaṁ payutaṁ bhaṇe.

nor would they speak suggestively.

Aññātatthaṁ pasādatthaṁ,

Good people consult

sataṁ ve hoti mantanā;

for the sake of knowledge and clarity.

Evaṁ kho ariyā mantenti,

That’s how the noble ones consult,

esā ariyāna mantanā;

this is a noble consultation.

Etadaññāya medhāvī,

Knowing this, an intelligent person

na samusseyya mantaye”ti.

would consult without arrogance.”

Sattamaṁ.